been sitting on this for a year almost!
So pumped, ser!!!
Shit Punk Says
Oceans of Wisdom
19,158
matching drops
#1459158
2026-09-22 15:17
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mcicMd9bv-SbO2PIrA0ng6hHP3CgykbY0g-79bMXeHE/edit?tab=t.0
for your comments
Proposed approach for Stream
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mcicMd9bv-SbO2PIrA0ng6hHP3CgykbY0g-79bMXeHE/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mcicMd9bv-SbO2PIrA0ng6hHP3CgykbY0g-79bMXeHE/edit?usp=sharing)
Proposed approach for Stream for comments
oops wrong place
for comments
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mcicMd9bv-SbO2PIrA0ng6hHP3CgykbY0g-79bMXeHE/edit?usp=sharing
Proposed approach for Stream
or maybe the people who voted did buy and the others did not
fascinating
fasciating!
for me the most interesting part is how quickly hugo's piece won and how much support it got (a lot) vs how many mints it is getting (not a lot)
After being rugged by twitter, I buckled down and re-wrote it
https://x.com/punk6529/status/1943053602853187609
i did a whole thread on this!
Does everyone know where the term "meme" comes from? If not, I've got you covered! "Meme" was coined in 1976 by biologist Richard Dawkins in his book "The Selfish Gene". Dawkins used it to describe an idea, behavior, or cultural element that spreads from person to person. (currently #19 in the voting)
privacy and scaling
Sounds great!it's for security right?
but they solve multiple problems at the same time
bc they are odd and weird
is building our brains in this direction
and it is the biggest challenge I / we currently have
I am completely convinced that ZKP will play a big role in our (6529's) future
proving cost would be low
our blocks would not be very large at least at first
really, really, really interesting idea
@[simo] @[GelatoGenesis]
This is a very interesting idea
Below is a “long-form translation” of Georgios Konstantopoulos’ tweets into plainer (but still technical) language, plus extra context for how this would work inside Ethereum.
## 1. What “SNARK PoW” actually is
Classic designGeorgios’ proposal**Proof-of-Stake (PoS)**: validators lock ETH and *vote* on blocks. The fork-choice rule is *LMD-GHOST*; every block carries thousands of attestation messages.**Proof-of-Work over SNARKs**: the *work* is producing a zero-knowledge proof that the entire block’s transactions are valid. Whoever delivers the first valid proof wins the block.
The idea is not to roll back to Bitcoin-style nonce-grinding. Instead, miners (call them **provers**) spend their GPU/ASIC cycles on generating zk-SNARK proofs. Those proofs are *needed* anyway to let the network trust gigabyte-sized blocks without re-executing them.
This is a flavour of **“proof-of-useful work”** already researched by Aleo’s **Proof-of-Succinct-Work** and similar systems([Daonft](https://daonft.medium.com/aleos-consensus-mechanism-an-in-depth-look-at-proof-of-succinct-work-posw-659746c38c0c?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Aleo's Consensus Mechanism: An In-Depth Look at Proof of ... - daonft"), [Aleo](https://www.aleo.org/post/proof-of-stake-vs-proof-of-work/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Proof of Stake vs Proof of Work: A guide to consensus mechanisms")).
## 2. Why Georgios claims it beats today’s PoS
Tweet bulletWhat it means (with links)**“higher gas limit because no re-execution”**In PoS Ethereum every full node re-executes *all* transactions to be certain the block is valid. If the block instead ships a SNARK, a node only has to verify one constant-size proof (tens of milliseconds). That removes today’s ~30 Mgas ceiling and opens the door to “Gigagas” blocks. ([X](https://x.com/gakonst/status/1942719141992919262?utm_source=chatgpt.com ""SNARK PoW is more efficient than PoS. - higher gas limit bc no re ..."))**“faster blocks – less networking, no voting”**LMD-GHOST relies on every active validator gossipping their latest vote; that traffic is what caps slot time at ~12 s. In PoW there is only the winning header, so blocks can be propagated and accepted much faster. ([eth2book.info](https://eth2book.info/latest/part2/consensus/lmd_ghost/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "2.3.3 LMD Ghost - Upgrading Ethereum - The Eth2 Book"))**“zero amortised wasted energy/work via IVC”**Incrementally-Verifiable Computation (IVC) lets provers *roll* proofs: each block’s proof folds in the previous one. All cycles go to something the chain would need anyway, instead of brute-force hashing. ([veridise.com](https://veridise.com/blog/learn-blockchain/recursive-snarks-and-incrementally-verifiable-computation-ivc/ "Recursive SNARKs and incrementally verifiable computation (IVC) | Smart contract audits from Veridise"))**“thinner, permissionless MEV pipeline”**Because the work winner is whoever proves the whole block first, you don’t need today’s MEV-Boost relays that coordinate builders ↔ proposers. Anyone can build/prove/submit.**“adaptive difficulty / throughput”**Difficulty = “how big a proof must you finish first”. The protocol can raise or lower that in real time to target a block interval even as ZK hardware improves.**“we will get zkEVM ASICs”**Exactly like SHA-256 PoW produced specialised silicon, open competition to prove EVM circuits fastest should lead to purpose-built zkEVM chips, accelerating the entire ZK ecosystem. ([rigsmineria.com](https://www.rigsmineria.com/en/guia-definitiva-aleo-mineros-rentables-2025/?srsltid=AfmBOoogUN43irW-4szm1mIGQi9XKX8PJOijJDFqVcJhWk_FNrhSr6wZ&utm_source=chatgpt.com "The Ultimate Guide to Aleo: The Most Profitable ASIC Miners in 2025"))
## 3. How the consensus layer would look
1. **Fork-choice**
*Replace LMD-GHOST*. A block’s weight is the cumulative SNARK-PoW behind it; the heaviest-work chain wins (like Nakamoto consensus). No attestations.
2. **Finality gadget**
You can still keep a small PoS committee (Casper-FFG style) to sign checkpoints every N blocks for faster economic finality. The committee could be selected *per block* using randomness derived from the PoW winner, so stake becomes a thin BFT wrapper. ([eth2book.info](https://eth2book.info/latest/part2/consensus/overview/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "2.3.2 Overview - Upgrading Ethereum"))
3. **Rewards & issuance**
The protocol pays the prover out of:
- newly-minted ETH (like block subsidies today),
- priority fees, and
- any MEV they can capture inside the block.
Georgios’ “out of pocket” tweet underscores that these payouts must be enshrined at protocol level, not handed out via grants. ([X](https://x.com/gakonst/status/1942719141992919262?utm_source=chatgpt.com ""SNARK PoW is more efficient than PoS. - higher gas limit bc no re ..."))
## 4. Is it “going back to PoW” and what about energy?
- **Yes** – it re-introduces an external resource (compute) race each block.
- **But** the cycles are *useful*: every joule of energy produces a proof the chain needs. Hash-based PoW produces a number you throw away.
Comparative studies show that zk-proof generation is far more *joules-per-transaction* efficient than SHA-256 mining, though it is still higher than PoS, where only verification is on-chain([Coincub](https://coincub.com/proof-of-work-proof-of-stake/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake: Key Differences Explained | Coincub")). The bet is that the scalability gain (100-1000× more gas per block) amortises that cost better than current rollup-plus-merge-mined architectures.
## 5. Open challenges
CategoryWhy it’s hard**Proof speed vs block time**Today a full EVM-equivalent proof for 30 Mgas takes minutes on big servers. Hitting <5 s block times needs 50-100× faster provers or aggressive recursion/parallelism.**Verification cost**Even succinct proofs cost ~300k gas to verify. At Gigagas scale that’s small, but the precompile still needs to be part of the hard fork.**DoS & worst-case proving**Malicious builders might craft pathological circuits that stall honest provers. The difficulty adjustment must detect and penalise that quickly.**Economic analysis**Issuance must be high enough to pay provers *and* maintain chain security, but not so high it wrecks ETH economics. No live chain has run this experiment yet.**Hardware centralisation**ASIC-based proving farms could recreate mining-pool dynamics unless there is ample competition and open-hardware efforts.
## 6. Why Ethereum is the natural testbed
- **Liquidity & user demand** – plenty of fees/MEV to pay provers.
- **Mature tooling** – EVM circuits, Plonky2/Halo2/Nova libraries, and a deep bench of protocol engineers.
- **Road-map synergy** – after *EIP-4844* and *Verkle trees*, the next bottleneck is execution-layer throughput. A SNARK-PoW fork-choice directly addresses that without new L2s.
### Bottom line
Georgios is advocating a *radical simplification*:
> “Turn the *entirety* of block production into one race – first to prove a huge EVM block wins. Let stake handle only checkpoint finality. Everything else (throughput, MEV, hardware R&D) will self-optimise around that single, paid PoW function.”
It’s ambitious, unproven, and energy-heavier than PoS-only Ethereum, but if the technical hurdles fall, it could unlock block sizes and confirmation times that today’s rollup-centric roadmap can’t reach.
**Further reading**
- Veridise blog – *Recursive SNARKs & IVC*([veridise.com](https://veridise.com/blog/learn-blockchain/recursive-snarks-and-incrementally-verifiable-computation-ivc/ "Recursive SNARKs and incrementally verifiable computation (IVC) | Smart contract audits from Veridise"))
- Aleo – *Proof-of-Succinct-Work* white-papers and miners’ guides([Daonft](https://daonft.medium.com/aleos-consensus-mechanism-an-in-depth-look-at-proof-of-succinct-work-posw-659746c38c0c?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Aleo's Consensus Mechanism: An In-Depth Look at Proof of ... - daonft"), [rigsmineria.com](https://www.rigsmineria.com/en/guia-definitiva-aleo-mineros-rentables-2025/?srsltid=AfmBOoogUN43irW-4szm1mIGQi9XKX8PJOijJDFqVcJhWk_FNrhSr6wZ&utm_source=chatgpt.com "The Ultimate Guide to Aleo: The Most Profitable ASIC Miners in 2025"))
- Eth2Book – detailed explanation of LMD-GHOST and Casper FFG([eth2book.info](https://eth2book.info/latest/part2/consensus/lmd_ghost/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "2.3.3 LMD Ghost - Upgrading Ethereum - The Eth2 Book"), [eth2book.info](https://eth2book.info/latest/part2/consensus/overview/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "2.3.2 Overview - Upgrading Ethereum"))
figuring out the right use for rep vs TDH is a good project
So they don't have TDH but are granted Rep, What can that Rep be used for though..??
Thought leaders Rep > 1 : An engagement with 6529 every Friday to discuss NFTs at Brain..
back to the mines for me!
and I am very much not!
I was supposed to be finished with this type of thing in my 20s
less happy to report that I have to get up in 3 hours for a flight and I am still awake and not done with a presentation I have been working on all weekend
happy to report that I am not a moron this time and remembered to subscribe my family members to SZN12
!!!
Mind you, Ser - you haven't voted for @[ack] card yet. If you put your TDH thumb on the scale, it will break 100m right now.
it is a nice place to chat about pepes
hope so!
Hopefully @[VincentVanDough] likes it here and wants to migrate some notable Pepes over.
they are great but not as active i think
Well it's certainly moving up quickly in my book. RarePepe and FakeRares were in first but have lost a bit of steam.
we need to find the language to expand it
it is the best group in crypto
I'm somewhat new and find myself checking-in every day now. It certainly is a more insightful spot!
type: meant to say "her"
i hope so. i think about here now or then and wonder what happened
ah no typos i think - thanks for flagging - we were previously going to start then - @[prxt0] pls take a look
2 things recently caught my attention on Memes Calendar.....Next 6/30? significance> ? and dates and days seem one day off...e.g. 6/30 Tuesday
i hope so. i think about here now or then and wonder what happened
Do you guys think memu found a new fight club?
in person events will always matter to people ofc
I can say for myself, I like to make organic connections. That's why I've attended some nft events. Some people may not like that.
In general, while I'm grateful for the friendships I've made on web3, I have to say that we live in an age of accelerated socialization (as Hartmut Rosa puts it), everything moves very fast. An age in which everything is produced and consumed very quickly
indeed - was deep in a major breakthrough needed project, i broke through and now as noted above have had to remember how to come in here and just type things
long time no see/talk/chat ser 6529
the magic will be to get them to come talk about grifters here, not about memes per se
I think many communities are entrenched and tribal and will be possible but not a guarantee to migrate them all to come here
most pro-social place in the crypto space
yes agreed
ok. I think we are making a pro-social environment here
look at that @[ack] in first place - who would have ever guessed 😀
the better it runs